For Arionne Nettles, Black Chicago influences everything. Her first book, We Are The Culture: Black Chicago’s Influence on Everything, is about paying dues to the Black people, places, and institutions that built up Chicago and shaped American pop culture.
She steers a course through the history of Black Chicago, beginning with the Great Migration, when over half a million Black Americans moved from the South to Chicago. From the start of Black media outlets, like the Chicago Defender, Jet, and Ebony, to the heyday of Black radio celebrities, she races through journalism, music, radio, fashion, haircare, and pop art.
Each chapter starts with a personal essay, making pit stops into memories of growing up in Englewood and connecting past to present. As a culture reporter, Nettles is fascinated by the roundabout relationships of how culture shapes people and how people shape culture—in Chicago and across the country.
In our conversation, Nettles unpacks how Black Chicagoans have led pop culture, why she chose to include her grandparents running a South Side blues club in her book, and how to preserve memories from older generations before they’re lost for good.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Reema Saleh:
When did you first have the idea for this book?
Arionne Nettles:
The first time I had an idea for it was around December 2019. When you enter academia, everybody is like, “What will you do? What’s your book? What’s your scholarship?” Most of my journalism work has always been about arts and culture. I’ve always been drawn to arts and culture—not just covering stuff, like the actual exhibit, movie, or TV show, but what does it mean for us? I got excited about trying to pull together a lot of how I look at Black Chicago, specifically, what we see as popular culture and the deeper meanings behind all those things. And how has popular culture changed over the decades? We’ll talk about something that is popular culture now, but jazz, blues, and all those things were the popular culture of their times. When the pandemic kept us all in the house, I got some time back, so I started making more phone calls and conducting interviews.
Reema Saleh:
Where did the name come from for this book?
Arionne Nettles:
Jay-Z has this famous quote where he’s talking about Black people. He’s like, “We are the culture. Nothing moves without us.” It stayed in my head because we are, right? From the 1800s on, maybe even before that, if you look at the ancestral-type dances we did on the plantation, the essence of those dances can be seen in a lot of modern dancing now. We have been the culture, right? We argue now about Beyonce and country—people had to pull out receipts to say Black people really created country, right?
He said it just as a normal response, and when he said it, I was like, “That’s just the truth.” That has also always been my approach to reporting on Black art. The subtitle used to be “Chicago’s influence on popular culture.” And then they changed it to just “on everything.”
Reema Saleh:
The book crosses many different topics on Black Chicago’s influence on culture. When did you pick these entry points?
Arionne Nettles:
It changed a lot, especially because the first idea of the book was specific to popular culture—music, very popular art, and fashion. But so many things have crossover. It ended up with a wider focus as I kept writing and going through the editing process. The hardest part was figuring out what to include and what not to include because everything is connected beautifully. It does make for some tough decisions. Because there are many things that I’m like, “Well, I would love to talk more about this, but I can’t possibly fit everything into a single book.”
I also wanted it to appeal to people who are not traditional readers. I wanted it to be a book where you could jump around if you wanted to. If you’re reading a section and it’s not as exciting to you, you can hop to another section. If you love music, there is a lot of music in there. If you love art, there’s some art in there. If you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I love fashion and beauty. I can’t wait to get to that part,” you may find certain things you feel closer to and love even more. As you read, you might say, “I’m going to pick up this book by this particular author with a book that’s all about Black haircare.” There is a little something for everybody.
Reema Saleh:
They’re almost jumping-off points for further research. Was there any chapter or focus area you liked writing on the most?
Arionne Nettles:
The media part ends up being a lot for a couple of reasons. I am in the media, and these are the people that I grew up knowing about and personally researched outside of the book. I have a lot of knowledge in my brain about how these things connect as far as media and how Black media has guided the culture nationwide, even based in Chicago. Those chapters were the easiest for me to write and the hardest to edit. But then, at the same time, what happened with the media sets up what you see in film and TV, so by the time I get to film, and I’m talking about a review in the Chicago Defender, I’ve already talked about the Defender. You had to have a good base of what a review in the Defender would have meant at the time. The media section is a good foundation because it was how information, opinions, and thoughts were shared and disseminated. Since we were going back to the early 1900s, we don’t have those people around for me to interview them firsthand. We have what they wrote and what they were quoted as saying in a newspaper article, so these Black publications are essential for understanding how people felt about something at the time.
Reema Saleh:
You have a lot of family history in this book. When did you decide that would be a big part of it?
Arionne Nettles:
I absolutely have no desire to write any memoir. But my family is like many other Chicago Black families. I will meet people, and their stories will almost be the same. Many of us, for example, grew up in the same programs. If you’re my age and a Chicago Public Schools kid, you grew up doing some of the same stuff I did. There is no one experience, but I only want to use my experience as an example of all of us. Many of us have amazing family histories that we are still learning about and exploring. We should celebrate more because we have these incredible families who have done so much for us to be in the position we’re in now. My approach was to celebrate my family because I want you also to celebrate your family. And really, my family is an extension of your family. In a way, we’re probably cousins.
We have these all-interconnected experiences, and I wanted them to feel like if they see themselves in it, they feel connected to it. I didn’t want it to be a memoir. I wanted it to be: How can we see ourselves in these histories? I wanted an essay at the start of each chapter like: This is my thought process. This is how I think about my connection to this history, and you may or may not have that same connection.
Reema Saleh:
No one can have a universal experience, but I can feel it if there is an entry point. Especially with the radio chapters—I’m in the iPod generation, so I was like, what’s going on? Was everyone listening to the radio like this?
Arionne Nettles:
So, you’re like, “Man, I just missed that.” But it was such a unique experience. Maybe two weeks ago on Twitter, somebody asked, “What was the celebrity death you felt closely?” And I tweeted that I really felt Aaliyah’s death because it was nighttime. I would always listen to the radio at night and in my room. I’m a preteen, so I got a little freedom—nobody is in my room. I’m listening to music, and the disc jockey says she has the news that Aaliyah has died. So, I’m boohoo crying because, at this point, too, I have a relationship with my radio personality. It’s not just anybody telling me. The radio people I listen to every night are telling me that my favorite singer has passed away. It wouldn’t have been that if I were two or three years younger. If I were a little younger, I would be too young, and my mom would say, “Hey, it’s time to go to bed.” I was on that generational divide because technology changes so fast that a couple of years later, it wouldn’t be the same.
Reema Saleh:
It’s very generational. My mom would have had a completely different experience reading this book.
Arionne Nettles:
My aunt, whom I interviewed for a few chapters, is in her seventies. I talked to her about her experience working for SoftSheen and stuff like that. What was it like being a grown Black person in the nineties in Chicago, where we have this strong Black middle class and all these Black businesses employing all these Black folks? And people being very politically engaged and about to get Harold Washington elected mayor starting in the eighties? We need those generational memories. And I want to know what it was like. I need people to say, “Oh, I felt like we were part of a movement. We felt like we were purposeful.” In another ten years, if I were to write this book, it would be different because we have movements now—what does it feel like? If you’re out mobilizing for something today, people still have that feeling, right? It’s going to feel different, and it’s going to be different.
Reema Saleh:
Why is it important to tell stories about Black Chicago?
Arionne Nettles:
There is so much history here that is just unknown. Many of the people who lived through those experiences are getting older and passing away. They’ve lived their lives, right? Now, it’s our duty to continue these stories. When I think about a lot of the stories that I have learned about, a lot of the people who are the experts are in their 70s and 80s. These are older people who knew a person who knew a person from that time, and they’ve done their job. Now, how do we capture this? How can we get this stuff in writing, at least? How can we get these stories somewhere so that they become part of the canon?
On top of that, Black Chicago is often villainized in national media, even when it’s not intentional, and it’s heartbreaking. Ever since I have been talking about this book, I’ve gotten emails, I’ve gotten comments that are very racist and mean that say stuff about, “Well, Black Chicagoans need to worry about not killing each other and need to worry about who their fathers are.” People try to make us poster children for all that is wrong. We’re never going to make people who are racist not believe that, but we should be strong in our convictions because I know that we are too amazing for me to let it mess with my mind. That is why we must share these good stories—otherwise, the negative stuff can take over. If you start to hear bad things about yourself, it’s hard not to believe it, so we must combat that with good stuff.
This book is a celebration. It is everything we have done in spite of what we’ve had to go against. Look at what we have done, how we have persevered, and all the great things we will continue to do. I think that young people have especially got to know these things because we’re susceptible to those messages, and they start to believe that. The message of things being bad and, specifically, us being bad is what people are trying to put on us. It can affect all of us. We must fight against that in a way I don’t always think about. I grew up with a family who was like, “Oh my gosh, it’s so amazing to be Black. Look at all these people who you come from and who you can be like.” Not everybody has that.
As journalists, you’re taught that you don’t always want to share feel-good stuff. But why not? Because we need it. We need to balance the very real world. If anybody knows the genuine struggles that are present, it’s Black people. You don’t have to tell me about crime in a Black neighborhood—I live in a Black neighborhood. Do you think I don’t want better for everybody? You don’t have to knock me over the head with the bad stuff. But I want more of the good things because that’s what we don’t always see.
Reema Saleh:
What do you wish could have made it in the book that didn’t?
Arionne Nettles:
Since I finished the book, I have learned so many more stories that are just so impressive. For example, I recently did a story about Black aviation for WBEZ’s Curious City. I did not know that Chicago was this hub of Black aviation. None of that is in there.
I knew I could not put in all the music stuff, so I honed in on the blues as an example. We mentioned jazz and gospel, but it is a huge thing. It could have been an entirely separate chapter. Even if we’re thinking about popular culture at the time, that was like popular culture. So, I could not have added these different things because I would have needed so many other books. Every single genre could be an entire book if done right. I had to make some tough decisions because, at first, I was trying to fit all that in.
During the Chicago Renaissance period, so much beauty and art was happening. I leaned mostly into the writing part of that, but there was much more dance, much more visual arts, and much more other stuff that was a part of it. You never feel like you made the right decision. You constantly second-guess what could have been in there. But it shows that there is no definitive book, right? If somebody else does it, they’ll pick different things. That would be the ultimate coolest thing if somebody picked up my book and said, “I want to write one like this, but I want to do my own thing.”
Reema Saleh:
What do you hope readers outside of Chicago take away from reading this book?
Arionne Nettles:
I talked about how Chicago works with other places. For example, there would be no Chicago blues if there weren’t blues in the Mississippi Delta. If our grandparents, great-grandparents, and all those folks didn’t come up from Mississippi, there wouldn’t be a Chicago blues. So, I also tried to pay dues because this book was all about paying dues to other people. It’s easy for people to think, “We’re the best,” and that’s not it. We are all connected. I even try to say that in an introduction: There would be no Chicago anything if it weren’t for places like Mississippi, period. We all influence each other in beautiful ways. We should be happy about those connections and celebrate them.
I hope that other places have respect for Chicago but that they also find a connection to Chicago. Do not forget about how Black Chicago has influenced everything. But because of that, it means you’re connected. So that music you love—that drill you love to listen to? Brooklyn drill and London drill? All those drills started with the Chicago drill. Even the newest of things have this very strong Chicago connection. Be proud of us, too.
We all want our representation. So, we should be happy when we each get it. I have no ties to Texas, but I can still be ecstatic when I see Black Texans finally getting their due and recognized in other places in the Southwest for their connections to country music. And even that connection started with blues, right? We’re all connected and have many of the same roots.
NONFICTION
We Are the Culture: Black Chicago’s Influence on Everything
By Arionne Nettles
Lawrence Hill Books
Published April 16, 2024
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